Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/24/2002 03:38 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
            CSHB 208(RES)-AQUATIC FARMS FOR SHELLFISH                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON announced HB 208 to be up for consideration.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DREW  SCALZI, sponsor of  HB 208, said  the Aquatic                                                              
Farm  Act was  established  in 1988  and  it was  a  comprehensive                                                              
approach to  licensing of farm sites.  While it has  worked, there                                                              
are some  conflicts when people  pick a site  but then have  to go                                                              
back  to  the  Department  of  Natural   Resources  (DNR)  to  get                                                              
approval.  A lot of  the sites  conflict with  personal use.  This                                                              
bill makes the  Alaska Department of Fish and  Game (ADF&G) select                                                              
90  sites  ahead of  time,  60  of  which will  be  for  suspended                                                              
culture, such as  scallops and oysters, 20 for  on-bottom clamming                                                              
of little necks and 10 sites specifically  for geoducks. This will                                                              
hopefully preclude the NIMBY syndrome.  CSHB 208(RES) has a fiscal                                                              
note of $260,000.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He noted the New Sagaya Market in  Anchorage has said it has a one                                                              
million pound  clam market  that it  can't seem  to satisfy  on an                                                              
annual basis.  It has to import  shellfish from out of  state. The                                                              
State of Connecticut  has about 500,000 acres under  lease and the                                                              
State of  Alaska has  about 500  acres under  lease. This  bill is                                                              
modeled after Senator Torgerson's  SB 141, which has moved through                                                              
the House quicker.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR  said Representative Peggy Wilson  had received one                                                              
letter of  concern from  Ben Mitchell  of Sitka  who felt  that in                                                              
reality this bill  would tie up every protected  cove in Anchorage                                                              
and Southeast.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  responded that's  why they want  this bill.                                                              
ADF&G would  be the  agency to go  out ahead of  time to  find out                                                              
where those conflicts may arise and  hold public hearings ahead of                                                              
time. The 90 sites are going to be  located statewide, not just in                                                              
Southeast.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  said he assumed  the private sector  would identify                                                              
its needs  and potential  sites and then  come tell ADF&G  what it                                                              
want to do  rather than the  state spending the money  to identify                                                              
sites and  telling the private  sector where  it can go.  He asked                                                              
him to comment on the philosophical difference.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  replied that the  state has been  trying to                                                              
use that philosophical approach since  the Aquatic Farm Act passed                                                              
in 1988. An example  is in Kachemak Bay, a critical  habitat area,                                                              
where a person  now wants to put  in a little neck clam  site just                                                              
below his property. He has met with  resistance from his neighbors                                                              
who say it is a subsistence area  or that they don't want the nets                                                              
on  the beach.  To him,  it  makes sense,  because  he would  have                                                              
direct access to  this site from his property. The  part about the                                                              
private sector  identifying sites  is still  going to go  forward,                                                              
but ADF&G will say yes or no to those sites ahead of time.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TORGERSON  said  he  thought  all  the  sites  would  be                                                              
nominated in the first go-round by private enterprise.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how they will  resolve the problem of DNR and                                                              
ADF&G having resident clams within an area.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI said  that  is the  common property  issue,                                                              
which has been  a roadblock. ADF&G is using the  criteria now that                                                              
sites with  no standing stocks would  be applicable. If  there are                                                              
standing  stocks,  the intent  is  through  regulation  to have  a                                                              
common property fishery - commercial,  subsistence or personal use                                                              
or a  combination.  The intent  of this  bill is  not to go  after                                                              
sites  that have  standing  stocks on  them.  He noted,  "Standing                                                              
stocks would have to be addressed separately."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR  said his only concern  is that ADF&G will  have to                                                              
find areas where there are no clams  so someone can raise clams on                                                              
that site. However maybe the clams  are not there because the area                                                              
is  not  conducive   to  them.  He  stated,  "It's   totally  self                                                              
defeating."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that is  a concern and HB 513 addresses                                                              
a request  to do  just that.  There is  no problem with  suspended                                                              
culture;  so they  are basically  talking about  clams. ADF&G  has                                                              
explained  that if  an area  had 100 acres,  it would  allow  a 2%                                                              
harvest out  of that area.  ADF&G would  take all of  the standing                                                              
stocks  out, then  that site  would  be available  for clams.  The                                                              
Constitution also  says that they  could allow for  aquaculture to                                                              
take place provided  that a certain amount of  the available clams                                                              
are used to propagate the species.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOB LOEFFLER,  Director, Division of Mining,  Lands and Water,                                                              
DNR,  said  DNR  has  been  working   closely  with  industry  and                                                              
Representative Scalzi and is pleased  with the bill and the fiscal                                                              
note.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  asked how he dealt with conflicts  in critical                                                              
habitat areas and parks.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said the habitat question  of how the standing stocks                                                              
are allocated is an ADF&G question  that he can't answer. DNR will                                                              
deal with  the conflicts  of land  use as  it has  in the  past by                                                              
first seeing  what uses  are compatible  and,  if they aren't,  to                                                              
decide between them.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said  he heard that there is  a regulation that                                                              
says you can't have a site in front of a park.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOEFFLER  replied that  he  didn't  know if  that  regulation                                                              
exists.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  asked how  DNR would handle  this if it  was a                                                              
law, not a regulation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOEFFLER replied  that the  law suggests  regulation, but  he                                                              
didn't think it would conflict with that regulation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  said it  seems to him  that if  he is in  charge of                                                              
identifying numerous  sites, he  might be causing  a lot  of angst                                                              
and  public outcry  even  thought  there be  no  interest in  some                                                              
instances  by industry to  do anything  in the  area. He  asked if                                                              
that is a correct supposition.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER replied that it is but  in the final planning process                                                              
DNR  could deal  with  that by  working  with  the applicants  and                                                              
communities to  figure out  where they are  looking. Right  now an                                                              
applicant goes  out and finds a site  and brings that back  to the                                                              
department who might  reject it and have them try  it again and so                                                              
on. This would happen at the beginning  of the process and be more                                                              
of a cooperative approach.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GERON   BRUCE,  Deputy   Director,  Division  of   Commercial                                                              
Fisheries,  ADF&G, said  he worked  closely with  the sponsor  and                                                              
interested  parties and  is appreciative  of  the flexibility  and                                                              
effort put into the legislation,  which he supports. He explained:                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     It  will  clear the  brush  away  so  to speak  so  that                                                                   
     people, when  they get ready to  go out and find  a site                                                                   
     and start a  farm, they have a good chance  of picking a                                                                   
     spot that they will encounter  no problems with, because                                                                   
     it  will have  been looked  at [carefully]  and will  be                                                                   
      identified as a place where there aren't problems and                                                                     
     it will be suitable from that standpoint.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He said they  intend to work  very closely with industry  folks to                                                              
identify areas where  they think suitable sites would  lie. A fair                                                              
amount  of  groundwork has  already  occurred  over the  years  in                                                              
Southeast and Kachemak Bay.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TORGERSON asked  if the  bill addresses  the common  use                                                              
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied  that it is a separate issue  and Representative                                                              
Scalzi  described the  approach they  are  taking. He  said it  is                                                              
possible  to  find  areas  that   could  be  productive  with  the                                                              
application  of  existing  technology that  currently  don't  have                                                              
standing stocks.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON asked  why the fiscal  note from  March was  higher                                                              
than the one from April.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE explained  that as they worked through  the process with                                                              
the bill,  they had a  better understanding  of the scope  of work                                                              
involved. Initially  they were thinking of taking  it farther than                                                              
is really necessary to accomplish the scope of the goals.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how many of these farms exist now.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRUCE replied  that ADF&G  has  issued about  250 permits  or                                                              
leases since 1988, but not all of them are still operating.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if they are  all hanging mariculture permits.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE answered that they are primarily.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the only  clam leases are in Kachemak Bay.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied that clams are  a recent development and most of                                                              
the sites have been focused on Prince of Wales Island.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  TAYLOR  asked if  ADF&G  has  actually licensed  some  of                                                              
those.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied it has.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DORIS  CABANA, Homer  resident,  said  she  had quite  a  few                                                              
reservations  about   this  bill   because  in  Homer   there  are                                                              
commercial fishermen. When they go  over to the bays, all they see                                                              
are buoys.  She understands  that the same  people are  asking for                                                              
additional  sites and  wanted  to  know where  it  would end.  She                                                              
thought  that sites  that  failed  for some  reason  needed to  be                                                              
restored. She  said she  is totally against  this bill  because it                                                              
takes beach away  from the public and fishermen who  might want to                                                              
fish the area.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. VI HERRELL, Ph.D, said she is  from the Homer and Anchor Point                                                              
area and opposed  HB 208. She thought it would deny  use of public                                                              
beaches and water by everyone.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAUL  SEATON, Homer  resident, said  this bill would  override                                                              
traditional  habitat and  state park regulations.  He pointed  out                                                              
that the  fiscal note only  covered funding for  identifying sites                                                              
and they would  be back in the  same box of people  leasing sites,                                                              
but  not being  able  to  get them  permitted  due  to  a lack  of                                                              
funding.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. JULIE  DECKER, Executive  Director, Southeast Alaska  Regional                                                              
Dive Fisheries,  expressed  support for  CSHB 208(RES) because  it                                                              
would resolve conflicts beforehand.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAT VEESART,  Executive Director, Sitka  Conservation Society,                                                              
asked why this  bill is even being considered. There  is already a                                                              
process by which the aquatic farming  industry can apply for lease                                                              
sites suitable  for shellfish  farming. The state  is also  in the                                                              
process  of  creating  management  plan  for  state  tidelands  in                                                              
Southeast  Alaska. He  thought it  was premature  to vote on  this                                                              
bill  before the  legislature  has an  opportunity  to review  the                                                              
planning process.  He asked, "Is  it appropriate and wise  for the                                                              
state to be promoting  an industry that leads  to privatization of                                                              
public lands that are already being utilized by Alaskans?"                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He questioned what will happen, under  section 2(g), if the lessee                                                              
doesn't  restore the  site and wild  stocks or  shellfish back  to                                                              
their original  condition.  He asked whether  penalties and  funds                                                              
for enforcement are attached.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He also  asked how,  under section 3(b),  the state would  solicit                                                              
nominations  for sites  from the  public, whether  DNR would  have                                                              
adequate  funds  to  do  a thorough  job  communicating  with  the                                                              
public,  and  how DNR  will  know  if  a site  is  an  established                                                              
subsistence or personal use fishery.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. VEESART said that CSHB 208(RES)  promotes the privatization of                                                              
public resources at the expense of  local economies. In Sitka, the                                                              
tidelands are already being utilized  by Sitkans. He has faxed the                                                              
committee materials that demonstrate  the concerns that both Sitka                                                              
and Tenakee have over shellfish mariculture.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. RON LONG, Director, Qutekcak  Shellfish Hatchery, supported HB
208. He  said that no public  process would be  eliminated through                                                              
this  bill. All  nominations will  still go  through coastal  zone                                                              
planning  review  processes.  The   object  is  to  eliminate  the                                                              
conflicts and not  trump one conflict over another.  He commented,                                                              
"Within that  vast amount of coastline,  there is room  enough for                                                              
us  all to  live and  work  together. We're  not  taking food  off                                                              
anyone's table. We're attempting  to add to the table and grow the                                                              
economic pie."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. LONG said there  will be no exotic species brought  in and the                                                              
cost  of the  permits  will  be borne  by  the  farmer,  as it  is                                                              
currently. He  said that  219 acres are  under cultivation  now in                                                              
Alaska with 50 active farms.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHN  AGOSTI,   Alaska  Shellfish  Growers,   supported  CSHB
208(RES) for all  the aforementioned reasons. He  thought this was                                                              
a safe  investment that  would more than  repay in years  to come.                                                              
Added advantages  are increased  employment and economic  activity                                                              
in coastal Alaska.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN asked  Mr. Loeffler if he had seen  the letter from                                                              
Ben Mitchell of Sitka that Senator Taylor was referring to.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said he hadn't.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN  said he would send it  to him so they  could get a                                                              
response from DNR when it comes up in the next committee.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR  moved to  pass CSHB  208(RES) from committee  with                                                              
individual recommendations.  There were  no objections and  it was                                                              
so ordered.                                                                                                                     

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